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Triple Advantage
Triple Advantage

Season 2, Episode 16 · 2 years ago

Ep. 25 - Rules of the House

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

What are some interesting home rules you have played with? Do you think giving rewards for RP makes for better players? Find out what we think on this weeks episode! 

Episode 25 covers our initial brainstorming session regarding the home rules we would like to see at the Royal City Society D&D tables. Then, we peek into the Feywild in our continued divination of the Dungeon Masters Guide. Lastly, Jordan brings yet another critical thought to the table. 

Wonderful Audience. I'd like to welcome you to episode twenty five of triple advantage. This show is a quarter of a century of episodes. As I'm saying that because a hundred sounds much bigger than twenty five, but we're definitely going to get there one day, I think definitely. Today you got your regular squad of hosts. I Carlos, I'm Braden and I am Jordan, and today we hope to take you through our standard set of segments in this show. We're going to start off with a discussion on home rule sets. Then we're going to be moving on to the Fay wild from the dungeons. Masters God and Jordan will close out the episode with a wonderful critical thought, thought provoking questions about this game and toppy that we all enjoy and with the rising interest, I think, between myself and some other members within the Royal City Society to start running some home games, we started taking some serious looks at what we want to have at our tables and especially now that it's ever so important to have places that people can find and enjoy without any worries of any form of persecution or, you know, Nastiness that exists in the real world. But to do that I think we need to have a little bit of a standardized set of play and it got me thinking we need to create a rule set for the Royal City Society. So to start this segment off, guys, what are some rules sets like? What are some home rules that you've seen that interest you and some home rules that you might want to try within your games? One that I do run within my game, and I think you both know this, is that I don't force a natural one on a death saving throat to be an automatic to failures. That's always bugged me that your character can kind of go out in such a crappy way as you just had the misfortune of rolling a one. So I rule that as just one death saving through where rules as written says it should be too. I also picked up from our friend Matt a good rule about spell casting because, again, rules as written state that you can only cast one spell per turn. He allows for two spells if it's an action and a bonus action within a certain order of magnitude. Like you couldn't cast two level nine spells, for example. I don't even think that's possible with an action. Real bonus action, but he would you would have to be significantly below the casting level of the first spell that you cast when you go to cast the second. It's almost like a having of that spells level. Perhaps, possibly, yes, yeah, half, or lower than half even. That's interesting. What about you, Jordan? Any rules that you have found interesting? For sure. So I have two rules that I like to use in mine and then one that I saw recently that I'd like to implement when I can. So the first one that I use is I like the idea of hidden death saving throws. so that means that the DM is actually the one rolling your death saving throws, not you. So that means the party doesn't know how close you are to dying, and so they can't be like he's fine, you know, he's just bleeding out on the floor over there, we'll get him, will get to him eventually, don't worry about it, kind of thing. It's more like, oh, crap, he's dying. I don't know how long he's going to last. We better do something about it. It's kind of more realistic that way, I think, and adds a little bit of extra tension. So I like to use that one. The other one that I I am, that I use is the I like the idea of descriptive actions giving you certain advantages when you're in combat. So if you decide that you're going to flip off of a, you know, a wall, if you're a monk or whatever, or if you're going to jump off of a tree and attack someone from there, it'll give you like an advantage on the attack, assuming you can perform the acrobatics check or strength check or whatever it is, whatever check I tell you to make, it'll give you an advantage. But if you fail that check based on the DC that I set,...

...then you'll have a disadvantage. So it gives people like a reason to kind of come up with cool ways of attacking and and moving about the battlefield and making it more realistic, I guess. That way then just like Oh, I attack, you know, and it also makes it like if you fail these kinds of things, you know, you kind of fall on your face and you can't do anything anymore. Right. So it's it's it's my way of getting the players involved and just able to describe and really really integrate themselves into the battle sequences. The other one that I saw that I want to implement has to do with intelligence. So the I think brain knits in Matts campaign, I saw it in his house rules, is your intelligence modifier can give you extra skill proficiencies or tool proficiencies or languages and things like that. I love that idea because honestly, intelligence is one of the least commonly used stats and it's often just kind of dropped as like a whatever, I'm never going to use it kind of thing. So you end up with our a lot of really dumb characters. So to see, yes, that's that's definitely we were. We were talking to that before we recorded tonight, and that's definitely his big rationale behind why that rule is in place, because he also feels that intelligence is seriously overlooked to stat so yeah, bringing this in really gives it like it gives you a reason to invest in it other than being a wizard exactly. So I once I saw that, I was like, Oh yeah, I definitely got to implement those in that into my game just because it, like you said, it's more more reason to invest in something that is seemingly useless to a lot of different classes. Yeah, yeah, so those are the like three main ones that I that I that I like to use. I'm working on a fourth one, which is going to have to do, I again, with death saving throws, but it's going to have like an injuries that count, injuries that can come along with it or, you know, a way of like protecting a person but also giving them some sort of permanent disadvantage if if they failed death saving throws or something like that. I haven't worked out the quirks for that, so I haven't implemented it, but it's in my it's in mind to do list. It's interesting. I really enjoyed that, that intelligence rule and, like Braden say, we were talking about this before. This has been a discussion that we've been trying to have a little bit more seriously in the last couple of days. But with regards to intelligence, I was telling him that that it's I feel like it's largely subjective, based on what DM you have. It's one of these stats that becomes heavily dependent on well, if you're running a one shot in your DM didn't prepare maybe the larger scheme of things or how to best deliver information that you might gain from a history check, it can almost make it so that it doesn't really matter if you have plus five intelligence, because how the DM delivers information. They might overdo it with a low roll and you get the same result. Or scaling. How how much information are you recollect based on a check, is largely subjective based on a DM. So it's one of those things where it's actually nice to have a concrete benefit, I think, to your character for having a higher intelligence. Right, like maybe you did go and learn more languages. That makes perfect sense, all right. What other skills and knowledge can you, as a player, tangibly connect to the game world? You know, and I think that that's what makes some rules much better than others. It's the lack of subjectivity, for example, right, it's a rule that's sort of constant throughout different dms and yeah, I really enjoy that. I really enjoyed that rule. Actually, another one that I another one that I saw that I really enjoyed online, was something like when you crit you take the Max damage of the first set of die and then you add the remaining with a roll. The reasoning in that sense was that obviously, when you're creating it's kind of Shitty when you have like, Oh, you roll a crt on d six is and you get all ones doesn't feel great, even though it's like very unlikely moment...

...in combat. But on the other hand, right, how do you balance that with enemies being able to hit characters right now, all of a sudden they are also doing more damage to you? So it kind of ties into the feel of the table, I think right. Like Britain you when you mentioned the death saving for a rule, right, I feel like that sensation of getting cheated out of your character can happen with other rules, like accidentally dealing more damage to you as well. So it's difficult to come up and now that we're talking about it more, it's you start sort of pulling on the thread and see, oh, what other little knots is this connected to within the game? When I try to think of rules for DND, I like to at least personally, because I do like the the storytelling aspect of the game is. I love thinking about rules that might that, when implemented, can actually elicit some sort of emotion or feeling from a player regarding the game. You know, that little and another little hook that connects them to their character, you know. So some of the things that I want to balance off your off your imagination here Jordan brains. Heard a couple of these already, but something like every time you enter a new room, or not a new room, but perhaps when you're getting introduced at to key components of a campaign, right, like when your party arrives at the Castle, when your party meets in the first room, perhaps with important other characters surrounding them, it's it goes along the lines of when you overdescribe a door, all of a sudden your players really care about doors, right, so you try to maybe deliver exposition in a manner that your players will Cooh, that vendor might have been an important character. I'm going to go talk to them, right, and that you kind of like throw your little fishing line for storyline and you're trying to catch your players into it. Right. So I thought, well, why not get everybody to have a little moment, you know, kind of like in the in like Telltale Games, when you have those four choices pop up and the timers running down, you open a little window and ask things, like anybody in this party can roll a intelligence or again, this is very rough, but like, for example, at this moment, you guys can roll one of your abilities for one of your abilities. So you can choose to investigate, you can choose to roll a nature check, you can choose to do whatever, or maybe perhaps just giving them an option of three to do depending on the scene. So you do something like a perception check, an investigation check or a nature check whenever they enter some sort of new area in general, and that way you can deliver information to your players about the place that they're in. It's in my head it would seem like it would come from that character's knowledge base, right, and then still give that nice little you guys are in a very dangerous area, rather than them just accidentally walking in and bring I know this is a very on the nose example, but I thought that was perfect. I can describe that. What happened with your party, I think the active war zone. Yeah, it was Jordan part of that as well. He was as soon as it was like session two of his new character. The world my campaign setting features kind of a bit of a background of war, of the fact that the the active government is at war with, like a bit of a civil war with one of its provincial factions, and that province is now essentially no man's land in this war. And I've mentioned this war several times, mostly in passing, but NPCs are brought it up. I brought it up. It was like a session zero in the cliff notes. Here's what's going on in the world. Kind of importance to what's going on in this campaign, and I think it was actually part of your background, originally to Carlos when when you were playing in that campaign, but my character Daeda, that it was. My party was going from one city to another and they passed by a checkpoint of sorts. They passed by essentially a guard post with a wall on either side, with a bunch of the official military kind of million about, and we're told it's very dangerous to go through here. For a small fee, we'd be willing to give you an escort through to the other side to ensure your safety, but you don't have to take that as completely up to to you. The party didn't bother to ask, well, that's weird.

Why is this here? Nice? What's dangerous? Why would I need this? They just we kind of assumed the Russians for some reason they asserted that this was a scam. Despite yeah accid it was described as a very prominent outpost with official guards sanction and said no thanks, and then my dogs dresser stars and then walked into this area and that was where the session ended. I was like, congratulations, as you traverse into this active war zone on the way. Wait, what waited? Yep, they were like, why would you not tell us that? I said, why did you not ask? So I think that I'm I'll stick to my guns in feeling, feeling like there should have been some more probing in that situation. But I think that, Carlos, that is a fantastic example of when that might have been a situation to bring this in. Well, it's one of the things that I think about when you're trying to marry character knowledge right, because in that setting that you described, I would imagine that the characters are seeing their surroundings right and at least one of them, with a high intelligence perhaps, or high inside or something like that, might get some sort of like, HMM, gun store, gun store, like a store, gun store. Well, they're going a guy don't think having kids anymore. So it's one of those things where, like I try to sort of I'm trying to think of rules, especially for for this group, and four games that we run under this to that would enable players to connect a little bit with that character and have that sense of fear or dread or you know that for knowledge of Oh shit like this. You know, if you if you describe to a character, oh you see a wild beast stalking around your campsite, right, well, okay, your party might react like most other parties that I've had experiences with with they wake everybody up and everybody arms themselves and they go on a quick little hunt and it comes back. But what if you just tell that character, oh, these beasts hunting packs of like seven or eight? You don't see any other ones, and it's ways that you can deliver information based on that character. But perhaps by having it as a rule, you can remind either DM's to give that little tip bit of information and maybe how much information you give to them is is more of a rule to avoid that sort of bias. At some dia and some might some others might not have right, kind of like what we were talking about at the beginning, just just a little bit of, you know, subjectivity. It's a little bit of trying to give it almost like a passive effect. Yeah, actually making it passive. So it's like every time the person has to rule when they walk in rather than, to certain extent, knowing, right, is that? Yeah, I are description, yeah, or, in a sense, something I guess I could. It doesn't necessarily have to be a rule, but it's something that could get the same feeling perhaps evoked that a character would have in a scenario. Then the player would also have by recognizing either the rule that's involved with it, like or the information that's being given to them. So that that way. Right. Okay, as a player, I see this big Harry, big tooth Predator in front of me. Well, that's not that's scary right, because I'm going to wake my party up and get them to fight. But if I have a high intelligence, you might have to give more information about that creature to a character that sees it. So perhaps you read more information off of the step block in a defined manner based on that characters intelligence. This would all be behind the scenes, by the way. It would be like a DM, DM's and rather and then right, you give that character more information, which in turns gives the player more information and gives a player that realization. These creatures usually hunting packs of seven or nine. We should get out of here. We can't fight this right. That would be in my head. I'm more and and it gets into like the the aspect of like, what are you trying to drive the camp? Yeah, M but I think in a sense you kind of want to take your players two different locations. Right and it's and it's right. So it's an odd little balance of like, well, sometimes in a home...

...session players might examine a door for them three hours and if they're having a great time, then that's phenomenal. But if you're having a public table with perhaps a brand new player and that starts to happen, I don't see that being good and enjoyable scenario for them as well. So want to like progress it a little bit so that they can do other things that they might find interesting. And I like it as an RP element. I think that's fantastic, because you wouldn't if, in your example of these creatures rolled up on a party, you wouldn't be like standing there as the wish are going like do I know it? Am I scared? So I should. Let me think for a second. Do I know it's like, oh no, no, I'm afraid. Yeah, I know what this isn't ob scared to to a certain extent, then you almost want it to be passive, right, like HMM. So, so if you have nature as a skill proficiency that you have and you're an outlander and you're a ranger, well, passively, this ranger should know things about most beasts or animals or creatures in the in their prefer terrain or whatever, you know, like it kind of just makes sense for them to know these kinds of things, right, and it would be the same with a wizard. If he walks into a room with a bunch of magical things, there should be some sort of like baseline. This is what you know about it, for sure, and then above and beyond that, if you want to search for things, you can do that as that. Yeah, and I could see something being implemented as as a wizard, you do not need to cast identify on the same type of magical item twice. Once you've identified what one thing is. If it's like a common ring of defense, for example, you don't need to identify rings of Defense. or I guess maybe how you flavor the campaign is that way you're thinking of. Yeah, just I mean more like okay, so, like, like I was kind of saying, like if if the wizard walks into a room and there's a bunch of arcane scribbles on the floor or whatever. To a certain extent the wizard will understand certain art arcane symbols and that kind of thing because he has studied it right. It's not like, Oh, I walk into this room and Oh, I rolled the natural one. Oh, guys, you know what, I forgot all of my training over the last fifty years. Sorry, we're out of luck. Like no, this wizard knows things he could or and in the same line as like hey, I roll a perception check. Oh too, but my passive perception is sixteen. Like yeah, yeah, you know, thetically to myself in the foot for trying to look for things. Yep, done that a few times with my Arthur character. I I A hundred percent agree with what you're saying. The problem, though, with that is that we're almost going beyond a home rule into a whole new reinvention of the basic five mechanics. So I think this is where you've heard first guys. This is the start of the roles in society game setting, and this will be a sy going discussion probably till season twenty five of this show. Stay tuned for that and I have to keep moving this podcast on because we're on a tight schedule and we're a very proud professional production in how solution over discord, Braden, do you have the thing I have? I have several things, Carlos. What are we what are we starting with? Do you want to do the DMG or do we want to do some questions from instagram? Surprise this week on our instagram page at real city society, we asked a couple questions, but the one that I'm going to focus on is one that we're hopefully going to be dropping a bonus episode on soon ish. No date depending yet, but soonish. We kind of teased it out in our last episode and that is the alignment churt. What do what do people think of it? Jordan, you answered this one actually, if you responded saying they can be important for characters with codes to follow. Monks, Pallid and soldiers interesting us. I don't want to dive too deep into that because I do actually want to discuss that exact point when we go into the bonus action exactly. I know we're gonna have an all at war. It's going to be great. It's going to be terrible. Tune in for good friend the name not be friends. After we're not friends. Now let's be ha ha, ha ha. It'll be great for ratings. I mean, yeah, the crew splits up, our viewers go over our shared facebook conversation. Guys, you okay? Yeah, we're fine. It's for the TV drama. A good friend of the show at the up to, at the up to power plant. It helps guide brand new players, but useless past that interesting thought. At DD DAD ventures responded. Should...

...be the guiding force behind the actions the players make, lest the gods intervene. Interesting. I'm that that sounds more in line with something that you might be thinking. Jordan, Paladin wise especially, or claric was as follow you follow your alignment or there will be tangible repercussions for its absolutely, but let's take a look now at the DMG. So last week we talked about the ethereal plane as we moved through our discussion of the various planes of the multiverse, and we talked about the ethereal plane kind of as its own thing and also kind of as this super highway between other planes, as this trafficking area. And now we're going to talk about the Faye Wild. Do either of you actually know much about the Faye Wild? Ladder knolves are from the fail wild. Yes, for the most part. In the uses that I've had with the fair wild and research I done for certain settings that were never really fully explored, I know that the time line or not timeline, but time works a little bit differently. Both in the Shadowfeld and the Fay wild. They are echoes and reflections of certain aspects of the material plane respectively. And in my campaigns I like to treat the Fay wild as what happens if magic involved influences evolution of nature and go from there and have your wild, wacky, more extreme versions of wild magic exist normally across the fair world and that's how I kind of understand it and that's how I interpret it and into my campaigns that have yet to be explored. I like that time Jordan. Any preconceived notions in the fail weld I haven't used any of my campaigns, although my wild mount one may make more use of it based on how the party progresses. But I do have a slight knowledge of it, specifically from a book series that I've read called the Iron drude chronicles. So I know a little bit about the world itself, or the Fay wild, and I know some of the, I guess, important deities that exist within the that realm, but other than that, I don't know much about it, to be honest. Okay, but I feel like we're about to learn. Let's let's educate ourselves. So, Carlos, you nailed it. The Fay wild is a reflection of see material plane as a shadow felt. We're going to get into shadow fell next week, but for now the Fay wild is described as mirroring the natural world but turning its features into spectacular forms. So, for example, it gives where there's a volcano in the material plane there's a mountain top with skyscraper size crystals that glow with internal fire. Towards the Faye Wild. I've I I love it. I love the entire concept. To the fail wild, I I feel like whenever I picture the fail wild, I just think of it as like the material plane on LSD and I feel like I'm not too far off with that descriptor, to be honest, from from the other descriptions I've heard of the Faye world. The main people in the fail world, you mentioned a Laddron elves. Those are there. The Faye naturally are there. It mentions the I just wrote it, the summer court, the Seeley and UN seely face. So there's a little pink box and we usually don't read these, but these this one seems important. Essentially, there's a two queens that hold court in the face wild, Queen Titania and the summer court leading the seedy fate, and the Queen of air and darkness ruling the gloaming court, leading the unseely fake. Basically, if you're a denizen of the Fay wild, you serve one queen, are another. It sounds like most good aligned individuals serve the summer court versus most evil aligned individuals...

...serve the gloaming court, which I find I like that because it sounds like they're competing, but they're also it's not like outright war. It's more of a friendly contest and whatnot, and I like the idea of that, of to kind of diametrically opposed forces that are just coexisting in relative harmony. Have you run anything like that in your game before? I haven't, no, but I do I do remember reading that a little bit. I did cheat Ahood in this particular session of the DMG. You doing. I know we have rules here at the real sities society. Don't worry, I will get my penance. But I haven't been able to run much of the Fay wild and my campaigns. Unfortunately. It's again one of those things where for the most part we've been running modules, or I've been running modules with you guys for a little while now, and just haven't really had anything that overlaps with the Fay wild. From the interpretations and adaptations I've had, though, I did help create character for a brand new player for D D and I actually got one of our friends, tyler, to sort of have like a share backstory with this individual. Ended up being he chose a laddern Elf as his race, and I gave him a little bit information on the Fay wild, like a well, these are they go back to the roots of magic, they're from the Fay wild and we sort of started talking about the well, what do they do there? How did they get to the Fay world and how did Derek, the human factor, into all of this, which was a tyler's character? It ended up being that they started out in the Fay wild and Leandrel, the aladdern Elf was a member of a royals, well the royal family essentially, and in more of the rich and affluent side of things. He plays his character quite fun quite interestingly, and he has a lot of fun with like the smaller towns and whatnot, just because all his gear, I've made it so that it's like the best metal work and Elvin clothing that waltz around right. So that's kind of like the feeling that I gave to the Faye wild is that the exposure that the failul has within the material plane in this campaign in particular, is that Leandel and Derik, the humans armor and gear because they were from there and train there, is substantially Shinier and the rest of the denizens of the world, which I repeatedly pointed out with like some of the more younger or small town blacksmiths, as like why are you shopping for a sword, guys, like your swords are much better already, even though they're the same, like stat but at the same time it's like you don't need to buy seven short swords, guys, just because it's for sale there. It's a get stuff. I drove that home by saying. The Guy was pretty much like, I don't know why you want to buy those, like my gear is. I'm just a small stuff I'm just a small city blacksmith. Guys like ended up buying a couple, but that's my exposure with the fade whild in the world and I'm hoping that we can go back to it. I did have it in his character. We sort of worked out this plot hook that part of his sort of story and a way that he can prove that he is worthy of being and holding royal seats is that he has to return to the fail weld, and it's not as a black and white sort of blink back and forth, which is something that I did have to change, because I think some creatures in the fail wild can freely go back and forth between it my wrong, I don't remember that. It was a little while ago whenever, that some of them can't. Yes, yeah, we will get that soon. I do like that interpretation of the Fail Weld. I'll direct this next question at Jordan, because one thing that I'm thinking of, I like Carlos's example, of them having like a like this pristine upper class kind of society within the Yes is about another another thing that I'm kind of relating this to is the the spirit wilds from Avatar, last airbender in legend of Cora. HMM, yeah, dressed. It's cool. That's cool. Yeah, and I think, I...

...don't know, what do you think of that? Would you run that as maybe kind of like the outlands of the fail wilds versus the versus the summer court? Yeah, for sure. So I think that's a great idea. I I would definitely have like an inner city kind of area. That would be more I'm more in line with, I guess, what Carlos has described, just because I guess my experience with it in the Iron Druy chronicles kind of made it more seem like there's a hierarchy and, you know, everything's kind of in order and people do the things that they're supposed to, and that's kind of it, at least when you're in the Fay wild and then, but outside of that, like if you were to have like an outlander kind of like feel to it, then for sure it'd be cool to make it like a spirit wild's kind of thing. I think that's a great idea. Would be really, really fun to throw players in there, which is interesting because I think like that is a version of AFA wealth for the the Avatar is setting right. What do you think would make it the I guess dipping into next week's topic a little bit, but what would be the shadow fell in that case? Would it be like, because I think it would be both. I think in the context of the Avatar, I guess, yeah, there's a are both part of the same spiral. There's only yeah, you see right. So it would be like it would be like dark spirits versus light spirits kind of thing. And one section of the Fay wilds maybe you run across, you know, just fluffy bunny's kind of thing, and you are, you know, aren't in danger to a certain extent, maybe just natch natural environmental dangers, but other than that, like the creatures themselves aren't going to do anything but you. Then you can go to the shadow fell, which is where all the dark spirits are, and they have of you know, claws and teeth and horrible things to suck your solo or something. I don't know. Ye, there they always wanted to suck your soul out in DMB. The next thing that we're going to talk about briefly is fake crossings, which is what we were kind of alluding to, which is that there are kind of areas where you can cross over into the Faye wilds from the material planes. It's gross. Yes, exactly, and it does mention specifically that these area in the material planes will almost appear to be a exact version of the FAI wilds. So like the Fay wild influence seeping into the material plane and kind of affecting the area around it, so drew groves being an excellent example. Yes, I'm interested because there's some. There's some there's a very explicit term that's being used in this description of people that are walking back and forth across across these fay crossings. So spoilers for anybody WHO's not watching critical roller, who plans on watching its, who's not cut up, but it's repeatedly referenced whenever you're crossing the these fake crossings. They use the explicit terms the traveler, to the traveler. It seems like this to an observer. The travelers there one moment and gone the next, and I'm wondering if there's some inspiration that was drawn there, considering the origins that have been revealed for the traveler. I'm wondering if it was directly maybe taken from the DMG name was, because that's exactly what he does. He's crossing over right and they're through these areas, through the fake crossings. Interesting. It explains a lot, it really does, really does. Think about the shelving that little tangent. The our last section that we're going to talk about I think, Carlos, you're really going to like, and that's the optional rules regarding Fae Wild Magic. HMM, because, like we said, magic kind of works a little differently in the Fay wilds and it is inherent in the land and it does affect people when they come over to visit. Well, do Max damage spells always. That's not one of the rules, because we can make it that. Put that down under our home rules. Spells do Max damage in the fade wild and they're homing and autocreds. got a homing autocrit Max damage fireball. I'm okay, you know what, we're fine not playing in that campaign. Treat the Faye wild as like a very miazaki setting where everything's just all over the place. Is Magic everywhere. You could cast a nine little fireball that turns into cotton candy at the end of it all. Yes, like I said, material plan on LSD. That's what we're dealing with. But the to the to Fay wild magic rules that are specifically referenced our Carlos. You mentioned time warp, I believe, and there's...

...a specific table that you can roll on to determine how it works in your campaign, which is essentially a day's becoming minutes, days becoming hours, days becoming years. Like it's really kind of up to you what the time stretch differential is between the material playing and the fail world, but the fact I do feel like it's listed is optional. But I feel like the fact that there is some kind of time stretch should almost be inherent to the fail world as this uniquely magic infused dimension. Does the time stretch have to be the same everywhere you go within the within the Fay wild? Interesting question. That would be even better if it didn't. Can it be negative days, years, months? Now now we're getting into some weird probable stuff that I feel like. Okay, so the fair world in the parable universe exactly. The other one that I kind of want to pick your brains over a little bit is memory loss. It mentions that leaving the Fay wild you have to make a wisdom saving for and upon leaving that or upon making that saving throw, if you don't succeed, you forget your time the fail world. Yes, conceptually I love it, but here's my thought. Because once you've already been in a FA world and you've done all these things here and you've left, even if your character forgets, your players always going to remember. Yeah, and there's always going to be that metagamy potential to be like, oh no, we went back into this. One of those things, if you implement it, can generate friction between the player and the game because Thet's so you want to revisit the fail world for whatever reason. Now the player has this knowledge and unless they're very good at playing the game or just intuitively more in an actor sort of state, I can get hard to sort of separate that player knowledge away from what your character might know. So I don't like that rule because of that reason, just simply because it just creates a little bit of conflict between your player and then playing the game and I don't necessarily enjoy rules that do that too much. I haven't your homebrew rule. I have a proposal. I'm I'm curious because I have one too. So you go first. What if? What if it's in the reverse whatever you say rule? Yeah, yeah, what if the NPC's that are in the Fay wild or whatever forget that the people we don't have the same wile? Okay, like that. I like that a lot. Oh, we're going with a you forget what happens in the Fay world when you enter it. It's like a new thing every time. I'll get to mind a second Jordan. Keep going with you yet? Yeah, well, so, so. So if you leave and you don't make the saving throat, then everyone in the Fay wild forgets that you were ever there. So it's like the reverse. That way, it's up to the DM. He can kind of decide. He or she can just kind of decide. Okay, yeah, this person, you know, we don't remember you coming here, so what, what are you talking about? Kind of thing, and you can roll play with that a lot easier than the player taking metagame knowledge into that kind of thing and often I don't think that there's going to be a lot of instances where an NPC is going to need to necessarily remember a party member, unless it's like, oh, we became friends with the king and now, Oh, they left, and who is this part? You're ingratiated the summer court. Eke said, yeah, you're not. Yeah, it's funny that you say this, because that got me thinking and it's interesting because I would just in that case, I would just do away with that check in general and just, yeah, that is the general rule of it. Every time. It's not a rule we've already established. At the fail wild, is is whack easy, the magical space. Things move a mile a minute there. You know, characters once like PC's leave the fail wild, whoever the denizens of that region are, are going to carry on and live their whack leaves and then eventually are going to, you know, have these moments with PCs perhaps later on where they go. You seem familiar and maybe and maybe you give your players advantage on persuasion checks and social checks in general with characters they've previously interacted with. But that character won't remember who they are. They'll like rebuild our relationship every single time almost exactly. Not gonna be really fun. I like that. What was your ruling? Here's my thought, and the more, the more on pondering over this, the more of an absolute logistical nightmarrit is, but I'm so. This would require an insane amount of preparation on the DM's part and probably planning on only going into the fade wilds for a session...

...or two at a time in periods, not having like a full failed wealds campaign like Hasmat suit, because you're God, so we're tell spending it. So what I'm thinking is, so if they're, if your players are going into the fail wild, they're probably going into the fail wild for reason. They're not just kind of taking a jaunt into LSD territory. Probably they're probably going in there for reasons. So you, as the DM, preplanned the encounters, free planned what is need it in terms of checks, in terms of potential combat. Then when your players enter the Fay wild, you have them make this constitution or this wisdom saving throw. If they fail that, you just go okay, now make this throw. You walk them through the throws and the saves of every encounter that you would have in the Fay wild. Oh my God, and then just go okay, it's been two weeks and you reawaken and you say away the players is still forget possible to many game oh my God, I mean yeah, we just practical is all get out. There would be that would be a nightmare to plan out to actually execute, but if actually done, I think that'd be fantastic. I think that this might have to be just in general the way you break out a session like this. You might have to have the bulk of the player actions happen before the last corridor, the last act, per se that in this one shot where they actually go into the Fay wild. HMM, you know. Yes, yeah, cool, that would be so funny. It would be. It's like, wait, what, what do you mean? It's been two weeks, you have all this. No, here you're like. Okay, why can't I read Elvin now? What is this sort in my hands? What do you mean? It's been six months? Oh, that would be so fun. Guys, I have tattoos all over my body. I got the hang over. Oh my God, a hangover shot where they bacuate. My God, yes, do you know what? Yeah, you could have it be like some some tavern and they have like a Mada mental sort of backdoor with this, like thee. Any potion brewers like this one'll take you to the Fay wild and NPC the give. Oh my God, cut, yes, that would be hilarious. We're doing and I guess the must of the Party has to find that NPC right racing back down. So, anyways, that doesn't for this week's divine. What do you guys think? Are We completely insane? Would any of this work? Would you run any of this? Let us know at Real City Society that was we're doing this Jordan take up. All Right, I'm gonna try and rain us in a little bit here, bringing us into the critical thoughts for this week. So Hmm, I wanted to ask you guys about emotional breakthroughs, I guess, with regards to players. So, for instance, the vestages of divergence in wild mount are exalted, or they can become exalted as you progress through the game through either the usage of emotional kind of like breakthroughs that you make as a player or, sorry, as a character, or after a certain point as you level up, kind of thing, depending on how you're playing and that kind of thing. But mostly I wanted to ask you guys, like, when people are role playing and they don't have like these messages of divergence has, how do you guys reward players for their acting and for their emotional breakthroughs that they might have? Are there particular boons that you give them? Do you have that in mind beforehand, if you know kind of what kind of route they're trying to go for, do you have like different darker paths that they might go? If they are emotions kind of go the other way, and do you have like a okay, these are your new this is your New Boon, your dark boon, so to speak. Is that something you guys have thought about before, or is it kind of just like an afterthought? I'll definitely just go ahead and say that from my experience Dming I and with you guys as well, because predominably we've been we've been going through this almost at the same time right like the increase in play and getting...

...more and more into this hobby. But I just don't think that in general, the group that we're playing with has had enough experience to emotionally connect with a lot of our characters yet. HMM. And it's something that I see and that's why I'm trying to work so hard on like trying to create rules that attach some sort of feeling to the player right just because I love seeing those moments where you know, you see that real smile when remember, like, for example, when Leone jumped off the cliff to grapple a creature mid air, which is a wild thing, but it seemed so perfectly in line with that character and for a split second everybody was like, what the fuck just happened, which I think would be the same reaction that all the characters would happen. So that that kind of moment like that, I I tend to give advantage because it's an easy sort of out, like if a character, it's an easy thing like, for example, like the Bard example, right, like if you make a persuasive argument, I'll give you advantage on it because you're thinking about you're planning it out and yeah, this makes a lot of sense. You're pulling the heart strings of the person right, like you're playing that character. But I just haven't had too many moments. I don't think we're like. I've never had a character cry at the player cry at the table. I'd love to see that, I but I also know that as a DM I need to get myself to a point where I can deliver a story in such a moving manner but I think happiness is the easiest one to sort of get out now and then. But like that true moment of joy and happiness when wild shit starts happening at the table and everybody's so on board with it. Right, yes, really will stay. I have been close to crying in one of yours. Close I'll put up the onions are closer to your yeah, quite. What was that moment? Actually just recently when I when newt got his you know what, fourth voice in his head, third voice in his head. Hilarious. I just started breaking down. I was like, I don't know, I interact with all these people in my head. Just started breaking down. Absolutely. Yeah, that was that was my one of my moments. But as a Tldr, yeah, to your question, I think it's just I'm loving the momentum we're having with this game and I'm excited to have more moments where people are feeling real emotions at the table, and that comes both in part by a me becoming a better DM and be my players. Perhaps just buying the player's handbook at certain times we'd probably come in Handy, and then we'll work from there as they develop more and more, to improving themselves as players in the game. What are you Britten? First of all, I'm glad that we now have it on the digital record that Carlos Lopez wants to make his players cry. Up, I got that out of the way. How Long I'll make you cry? I'm I'm I'm conflicted on this one because, like I'm, I'm a different kind of DM and I'm a different kind of player because, like, Ourp to me, is the game right, like that's that's why I played DD's, because I love to like sink into a character. So it's weird to me to ask, like, what kind of boons would you bestow on a character for this kind of moment? Because for me, that kind of moment is the game, like that's for me, that's reward in and of itself, is having that moment and having that awesome experience as a as a player and as a character. Like I wouldn't I wouldn't need something else on top of that, and I wouldn't. I don't think I'd give something else on top of that either. Well, now you say that I'm not giving an advantage. Ever again, that's free. No more inspiration. Going to waste it anyways. I've been rolling like straight the same numbers every time you give it to me. Recently it's been terrible. But yeah, I don't know, like I just it strikes me as weird in my head that it's like it's like the it's almost like the people that's like, do I get advantage for that, like for for playing the game? No, you don't. In the same way, do I get a boon for this, for playing the game? No, you don't, because for me, because I...

...get like that's that's yeah, I see the game like that is a game for me. So I'm like, what do you mean? You want something extra for playing the game? That's interesting, coming from the rule of cool guy, right, but I mean, like I like to see. I do like to see something of the vest like the vestages that like as their mechanic, help to bring out that side of players, and they do, like I see the appeal because like it helps to draw out that aspect of play, right, but at the same time, like I don't want my players to be searching out like it cheapens it, like once you are people that start to like search out these emotional moments just because they know there's going to be something in it for them like I wanted to. I want to say organic. Right, I get that. I get that it. I guess it. It totally. I guess I depends on the players that you have in your group then, right, like I feel like new players sinking into a character, it might be difficult for them, especially if they don't have a background in some sort of drama or something like that. If they don't, then role playing to them in general is probably going to be new to them, and in that case I personally like the idea of giving them some sort of motivation towards developing their character in a certain way, in the way that they want to, so it doesn't just become all mechanics, right, because I have seen games where it comes down to all mechanics and then it doesn't feel organic at all. Right, it feels like robots almost, and so if I can drive people to even give me a cheap inversion, hopefully that will encourage them in the future to just continually progress in that way naturally. Right. Maybe at the beginning you give it out more often than it slows down later, I'm not sure. I'm trying to figure out what to do for my new group. Specifically because I know that the new players are actually very roleplay oriented. So I'm not sure how much I want to, like I want to encourage them to continue to do that, but I don't want to cheapen it for them either. Right. So that's why I'm glad I got a little bit of both, because it puts me in the exact same spot, not knowing. Thank you. Guys. Here ye are. If you ever want to sit on the fence more, just come to us. Yeah, want to get it. You know, I think you'll give you a yes, a no and a maybe once and, by the way, it's dependent on your table guys. By the way, yeah, I think something that I I'll I will side with you, Jordan, on this, more so just because I like the active use of Sarahtonin to influence game mechanics. I think that that's our core thing, and almost every game you have mechanisms that give rewards to characters and that triggers positive response. And yes, you want them to get hooked on the RP, so you want to give them a way to get that RP. And Oh yes, this is a good argument. You know, you don't have to now, as I would say that as a DM. Perhaps if you're saying like okay, if you're trying to persuade some other character in this world, you have to give me a good argument. Well, be careful with the words that you use, right, because have to kind of makes people back off a little bit. But in general, like some players might not be as as a is extroverted and act out certain things. It might just tell you right like hey, I want to blah, Blah Blah. So I found a little bit of success and starting to ask, like what your goal is in certain situations and then sort of touting more information from the player and once they give me that element of like, okay, this is how I would persuade this guard to let me pass, or how I would persuade this shop owner, whom I'm never met before, to give me a discount on this item. Right, I explained that I was a great hero blow the Blah Blah. Okay, that's good, and I want to reward that. So I give advantage or I give whatever you know, and then eventually, once your players get into that habit, you might dial that back a little bit, because I get what you're saying. Bring it could also be something that could be highly exploited. Of Right, if you have a veteran player next to a new player and you're trying to reward the new player for our peeing by, like you said, right like, every time that they give convincing arguments or whatever, and the better player all of a sudden clues into that. Well, I also don't see that as a bad thing. But it could be...

...that you know, Oh, now this player is like over blowing everything, over the top and it's not in character anymore and it's going away from, you know, what the dynamic should be. M I would say that then it make I don't know, it gets a little because we have a rule like that, right like you don't. It goes back to the I don't want to play your character for you or put you in this box of how you have to play this character. But right, like maybe having a good argument, even though you have negative one on charisma, gives you a little bit of a bonus. Like what are you doing in game to help that flaw that you have? Right, and so exactly, have a compelling thing and your character is aware that you can't talk to people. So you perhaps are more affluent by giving gold and you know trying to incentivize. More than sure, I'll give that some form of advantage, right, or some form of balance in the game, because you are expending in game resources to counteract some form of lack of skill or ability, and I think that that should be rewarded for players, because it's a creative element and that's what gets a little spark of Oh, I can do things in this world that affect how I play. Okay, well, I'm invested in this world now and I want to keep doing more and more things in this world and tugging and asking NPCs more and more personal questions or something like that, right, like it gives them that little bit of fuel, that little kindling, to start this creative endeavor and become better at our peeing and better at playing their characters in general. I think I do agree with you, Um Jordan, in that sense, in that it's important to do that. I'm right, yeah, and I understand your point of view burn but at the same time I think it's very hypocritical that you're also rule of cool guys. So I'm all so, you know, like kind of way these things in my head a little bit. I think that there's a difference between that and rewarding like genuine human emotion, like if you're really into your character and you're having like a moment, that in itself is the reward. To be like your yes, you're connected to your character to the point where you're able to have this legitimate human emotion. If I had like a player that was like literally in tears at my table because of something that happened in game and we were all having this moment together and then they immediately wipe the tears way, were like, so what do I get for that? Congratulations, you killed this game for me. All right, that'll be thirty yeah, that'll be thirty seven dollars for the acting. I got that. I totally get that, Braden, and I understand. What what would you do, though? Like, let's say, what if it was a major moment where they came across some sort of what if they what if they had some sort of major trauma? Would you give them some sort of mechanical difference in their abilities because of that major trauma? Like sure, give me exactly. I can't quite a picture. Okay, let's say. Let's say they saw all of their friends be eaten alive by spiders or something like that within this campaigne. Would they now have some sort of a mechanical fear of spiders? Maybe every time they're in their presence, they have to make wisdom saving throws, so you know they're in order to, you know, stay away or be able to interact with them at all. Now, in the future, like, are there moments where you would implement some sort of a mechanical boon or dark boone? I mean to be do I just that's were implementing a PTSD condition? Yeah, yeah, almost, okay, but then, like you have in the other way to maybe they I'm overcome a major fear right, like what do you do about that? Like you can't just say congratulations, you no longer afraid of open spaces or whatever. You've been playing this whole game like that. But like, I don't know. Yeah, maybe you want to like provide some sort of like okay, your character is now better, your hero has upgraded. There's some sort of like, you know, boosts here, natural charisma, or maybe you're just, you know, because you're more confident or something like that. I don't know. Well, I like, but but should you, as the DM, have control over stuff like that? Like when your players characters get over their fears? I don't think so. I know maybe. I think he has a DM have control over how you interpret that in game, though, because if a character, but if because of a character, for example, well stated in their character creation. I like, Hey, my character is afraid of heights, but at no point in the campaign that they have a factor that into what they're doing. Right. Well,...

...then you don't barely have to acknowledge it. As at the M if they go well, well, I was afraid of heights, wasn't it? And you're like yeah, but you know, in your first adventures somebody was in danger and you had a sudden burst of confidence and you've never really felt fear since. You can just do away with that in an instant. II learned. And if the player doesn't care about it, right, if the player never factored it into their game play, then you can dm right it away in an instant because it never mattered. And why would it now? Why would you make a big deal about it now? Right? Enforcing a mechanical change of a player never took that into account again goes into those things that create friction between a player and the game and I don't like that. So I try to just do away with that. I've like, if a character never explores, you know, those bonds, ideals, flaws, okay, well, you just playing the game or if you're still enjoying it, then that's fine. Right. So it's my job to say why you are now not afraid of whatever right of heights, or even something like a character saying like, Hey, I don't like my background. I don't think it's factoring into this campaign too much. Can I change it? Can I do something else? Right, I think that I did that for Horde of the Dragon Queen because I found out that I needed to be a deep nome to have that magic. So I swatched, I swatout my my background. We kind of did away with that just very quickly over one side. Yeah, that was more of a mechanical, mechanical issue. But yeah, but like, but how much did it actually factor into the the the game play? I don't think. I don't think it would have mattered too much either way, to be honest. But I changed it because I I also don't like running on mechanics that aren't part you know that are like that, but or having mechanical things that I shouldn't necessarily have as my character, because I could have got into a very broken territory. You know, it's it's definitely I think it really comes down to how you want to DM something. Because, like, using your example, if if a character writes in his back story explicitly like I'm terrified of heights, terrified, I can't go on your heads and then the session one they're like scale on the top of a cliff, just because I would probably my first thing would be like hey, didn't you say in your back story that you were afraid of heights? Just kind of like a small nudge. I wouldn't be like mechanically like make constitution save with the would be like no, like did just making sure did you say this? Then if if it's like Oh, yeah, you're right, maybe I'll approach this differently, or if it's like yeah, but I don't really care, then I'm sorry, but maybe you're playing in the wrong campaign. But I think that again, like maybe that's where we differ and like ourselves. Yeah, that's what's Day and yeah, yeah, like I would say like okay, well, if it's not something that you factory, and then I can just say why you're not. No, longer afraid of heights and we're okay with that. That's fine. If you go with Oh, maybe I'll approach this differently, knowing that as a player, well, that's good, because that's that our P elements. And if the player goes, Oh shit, you're right, I did say that, and shows still some, you know, some form of interest and the fact that they're near a cliff or something like that, I might go you have disadvantage on a tax and your movement speed is halved or something like that because you're scared. Right, little things that you as a person, when you're near a cliff, you'd be like, Oh shit, like smaller steps, right. Yeah, well, now you have smaller steps in game, and I think that if the players okay with that and that makes sense, then I would roll with that rule and if and then maybe have further conversations if they show interest in trying to get over that fear. But if there is no fear, it has never factored in and you know, a two month long campaign and all of a sudden you're like, there's a cliff, and I remember were this one moment where you said you were afraid of heights. I don't think I would make that much of a deal around it unless the player was like, I'm you know, I'm game with our peeing elements like this, right, right, I think. I think that it's fun when you can tell a player, hey, by the way, in this area, this particularly rule applies to you now, and that player going okay, DM, I see where you're going with this. I'll play that into my character. But that goes back to the conversation of a more experienced player. Right, I'm more comfortable experience player. That's not going to go but that's all what my character sheet says. That's not what the self's happening here. Right. You don't want to create these conflicts, but if you know your players open to that, then maybe then introduce mechanical changes or something like that. Yeah, well, thank you...

...both for your awesome thoughts on this question that I had. Guys out there listening to our PODCAST, send us a message. Let us know what you think. Our emotional breakthrough is an important part of dungeons dragons, or should we just kind of let people be? Let us know. Send US message at Royal City Society on our instagram page and look forward to our upcoming episodes and potential written stuff. Catch you, guys, next time.

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