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Triple Advantage
Triple Advantage

Season 2, Episode 3 · 1 year ago

Ep. 15 - Beginnings of an Adventure

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Continuing the storytelling conversation, in this episode we discuss everything regarding session 0, styles of play, and how we set the tone for the start of our stories.

Wow, oh shit are: we live, welcome everybodyto the episode that you've all been waiting for of triple advantage whereon season to episode three and we're continuing our quest to dive into the world of storytellingwithin your campaigns, how we generally incorporate rule sets and how we try to mix and match gamemechanics with the storytelling aspect of the RPG and any tabletop gaming cession.Today, guys we have Jordan and Braden back again and myself, Carlos Hosting Braten. I believe you're talking aboutplaystyle as well, for our divining DMG. Yes, we are perfect. So that's going tobe a little bit later on the episode. If you want to tune into that, we'vebeen going from staight to about page thirty, four right now on the judgon master's guide, we're starting to read it for toback,because we figured that we have never actually done that. This is just soninformation for any new listeners that might be out there that don't know whatexactly. What's going on so the forther Ado, guys with regartds to storytelling. I am starting another campaign brain. I know you got a little snakpeak of this beforehand, but I'm running another beginning campaign with some new players- some old playersalike- and I just wanted to get your guys is perspective on this. How do youguys normally start a new campaign with players from session zero onward tosession one buty? A can take the Mike here and just go along with it session. Zero is definitely a superimportant element in setting up a new campaign. In my opinion, it's importantto kind of establish what the tone is, what is going on in the setting, so theplayers can adequately craft their backgrounds ar whatnot isimportant because there are house rules that bury from game to game point via versus ruled for stats. Some in combat option, some out ofcombat options are available or not some classes are available or not highmagic, low magic. Super Important in my opinion, though,is also really getting a feel for what your players want out of acampaign. I was recently I'm in the several sessions on Tuesday we kind ofrotate out DMS, depending on WHO's available, but one of our players is thinkg aboutdoing another sishion we were talking about who's talking about. Is thereanybody? That has something specific that you really don't want to see in a campaign like you really likeyou'l leave, the campaign of thiss present didn't and I was like itdoesn't. I don't think it needs to be pointed out in our group, but the onething I said was like really taboo sexual stuff like something likerapeer, something like that which again I don't think the DM wouldhave included, and I don't think that the players would even think about crossinginto, but we've all read, urpg horror stories about players who do find themselves in thosesettings. So I think that that's one of those things that it's super importantto just kind of open that dialogue before starting a campaign about likewhat do you absolutely not want to see in thiscampaign because it could be. That seems like a fairly obvious one, butthere could be several other things that your players really are opposed to in a game for sure for sure and that, like opencommunication with the players like you have to make sure I guess, when I was starting a campaign,I actually looked up different things that you can talk about in inseption, zero, just to make sureeveryone's on the same page, it took a while to get through the list, but Ithink it's really important, because it makes sure that the players know whatyou're comfortable with and then also you kind of can say. Okay, so we'llallow such and such a thing. But if it gets to you know gruesome or to bad, Iguess for the players, then you can all peak up like do not hesitate and saysorry. This is too far for me. Let's try and do something else here and andthe DM has to be willing to kind of be like okay, yeah totally, let's move on and and create a new narrative here. I think some of the things that I went through as well was things likelike slavery, slavery in Mediville, fantasy campaignsis something that comes up for sure...

...in different ways, and sometimes it's looked down upon.Sometimes it's like. Oh that's, part of the natural world or whatever liketoday in our society. We obviously do not condone LAV slavery, but does thatmean it can't be part of the campaign like sometimes I can create a reallycool back story for your character. I don't know, I don't know whether it'ssomething like that's like something. That's definitely like on the table forpeople to discuss and say, okay. How do we feel about this and obviously we'renot going to go into detail about too much of that stuff? But you want tomake sure that there's open communication there that's an interesting one, because I dohave players that have crafted slavery, influenced backgrounds and I think evenyou guys ran up against it at one point in my campaign: Yeah Yeah. So I mean it's something that I don't mind,including in a background, but I'm not sure I would want to run it in person.Does that make sense yeah like sure a lot of those like really horriblethings that can happen in the world? I'm okay with having those kind ofthings like in the background, but I would never actually run it on theforefront or actually describe any of those kind ofscenes just because it's that's not what the game's about. Really you knowit's about having fun, and you know it's nice to have those thosebackgrounds that can really drive your character. But I don't want to like seethat kind of stuff during the campaign that makes sense for sure- and these are pretty intense topics forthe first point of conversation on episod three of season, two of Tiplaladvantage, but all good all good points. None theless, I think what you guys arereally driving for here is the communication between players right thethe expectation between whatever you what everybody brings tothe table right as a DM. It's not only just your rule, to you know, aducatethe rules of the game, but also to make sure that everybody's getting along andthat the party I mean like both in game, and you know in real life it'sgetting along and wants to play with one another and cooperate right. So Ithink that that definitely factors I mean I haven't really encountered toomany of those more serious topics and the campaignsthat I've played, but definitely things like balancing how many combat encountersversus RP encounters you want to have, and especially with new players at thetable. Right because I find RP is something that people get into alittle bit later, perhaps but then, at the same time, we all knowhow boring it might be to run a really long,combat session. The first time you're playing the game right like you're,trying to get these people, especially and like my focus, is especially withnewr players. Here I think yes you're trying to get them to engageimmediately right, like hey I'll, throw an Arrow at this Goblin, that's cool.What happens what action happens and you know how it Dos you? How do youmove along based on that action versus like okay, cool? That's sixe damage?Now it's the God, let's turn they shoot you and know you should them againright. I feel like that kind of like step sort of breaks, the immersion a littlebit, perhaps not so much. I think, like in our campaigns nowwe've gotne a little bit more accustomed to longer longer fights, but I definitely found that wasdefinitely something that I found that was kind of boring at first and Istarted playing the game and it's just I mean it's part of the mechanics, butit's I'm trying to think of cluver wayss, a DM that I can sort of maybe change the mechanics a little bitto fit a better narrative. Have you guys ever done anything likethat? Have you guys ever used certain rules within the game todrive the story or maybe amitted rules outside Im, like like fudging, dieroles, for example, I feel like we've. Some of US might have done. I'vedefinitely done that before Oor, like this party is about to die, but they don't. I wouldn', no EPEIAL UUL most definitely go forthe TPK Yeah Samison about having fun. Okay. Let's take it step back,everybody yeah! It's all about reality. If you want to be the first leveladventurer that goes up against the Dragon, you do it, but you will die yeahnow my view. There is something tosay about that like something that I'vereally wanted to do is maybe get a couple of you more experience playersand play a very hard campaign somemeing to the level of. If I have intelligentcharacters, I will actively plot...

...against you as a DM yeah. At that extent, right, it's notso much like oh enemy. Is there agro? Is there no AGR ITS OH enemy you're ina trap like this was planned and you're going to die like that kind of goingafter the healer? First, followed by Oh yeah, like I e ucast, a spell likethey're all going to switch targets immediately, like you know what I meanthat kind of campaign, so I think it definitely takes a different kind ofplayer right like it takes both people playing together and knowing whatabilities my characters might have, but I think that would be really fun tojust some like a meat, garinder level. Yeah O that's interesting, because Idefinitely on that note. I definitely have moments where I am it'll depend on what I'm playing as interms of a and NPC that the characters are facedwith. If I'm playing with like some beast, stor like some, you guys werefacing lizard folk and horder, the Dragon Queen and they weren't exactly a a superintelligent bunch for the mostpart right. It's probably going to be superinstinctual combat where it's like. Oh you're, the threat in front of me or Oh,I can identify. You quickly is like the bigger one we're going to swarm youright versus, like if you're faced with a wizard that is well versed and fairly intelligent, as wizards tend tobe they're, probably going to have thenewones to be able to go. Okay, I'M NOT gonna run straight into a shocking grasp against the front linebarbarian. What I'M gonna sit back here for a minute and pick off the peoplethat I notice hor hanging back, because they're probably going to be a little weaker, but maybe have someother tricks up their sleeve. So it's all about nuancing that, in termsof going back your first question about altering mechanics. It's interestingbecause you guys are currently playing whorer the Dragon Queen and you're.Currently, you stubled across a a white dragon stumbled across as demble it literallystrumbled across etrait was very out of nowhere, but there's a bunch of momentsar where I was clenching. I was I had the STAFP block up, but it's a that would have been a very,very, very trecky challenge for you, guys at your level at I'm pretty sure, tha. We E party Trik,like there's, no way we fight that we're all level six. What are youtalking about? Yeah? Absolutely so I did some. I was doing some researchafterwards. Just yesterday, I was looking into some stuff towards thatand because I was like do, they expect themto fight this white drik because you guys are even like thit's just aparty's, for you guys were five and I still don't think you would staying t achance and most of what I came across was basically like. Oh Yeah. No a lotof combat in this moduule was just broken, so take a really critical eyeto what you can possibly Tweik, even ifyou're not going to tweak like the flavor, like it's still an adult wetdragon, maybe tweek the stats behind that a bit M so that it's a lowerhealth so that it's maybe incape aganeersa certain yeah, maybe it'sincapable of using certain abilities. Maybe you drop it down to afull, lower dragon level like it's still flavor wise wit at White Dragon,but maybe it's not a statwise n, Hawa Dragon Yea. It's aYELP, woit yeah! I mean h the one tiy thing aboutthat encounter and the session that you ran. FORS is I've mentioned this before, and it'shaving a high wisdom, Charaer a higher wisdom character is, I feel, a littlebit better about metagaming a little bit more with that, and just knowingthat, like in game, for example, the the whole thing about the cult wastheyre bringing wealth to this dragon right, like it wouldn't putting two into together that there's like lots of diamonds and gold and treasure in thishord right of this White Dragon, and we just stumble across it Joran, Iliterally just told Braden, I walk up and I dump all of my goal in front ofthis dragon say something about worshipping it and then walk away. But I was very concerned that the restof the Party wanted to fight this dragon. Well, I think that that'sthat's a great point and it was pretty much the perfect move to Hav made there,but really, I think that that's also adifferentiating factor between playing with newer players and playing witholder players, because I don't like I don't like to read theMoster Manual on my spare time because, like I play in several campaigns on topof DMING, so I don't want to have like this Sol in death backknowledge exactly. I don't want to really met a game almostunintentionally, just by knowing as...

...much as I can about these preachers andthen en traing into combat if it them. But I mean I didn't really know thespecifics on a white atalt white dragon before I had pulled up the STAP lock torun it against you guys, but if I'm entering a cave and there's a massivewhite dragon on the ceiling, my first instinct is oh man. That would lookgood on my wall. Let's now, let's see, let's get out of this room where thisGargantuin threat exists. Let's just let's go somewhere else and deal withthat later, like yeah centuries later, I might actually go in there and justtest it to see what happens. That's that's how you end up from yesyeah, but it's fun, I think, sometimes to just kind of be like. Oh, oh! No, itdidn't do any damage, let's get out of here now, but I find that that's where you knowas a player. Those decisions are really hard like asa player. It's super easier kind of just hey. Can I just poke this likewhat will happen all right, yeah and I think you got to be reallywilling to just lose your character out right because there'r certain scenarioswhere like if, if we're talking like, if I were to run a meet grindercampaign right, if you go into the horde of a dragon and you throw a stoneat it and you're like what will this do and the dragons like not you know, described as Wi'll talkto travelers, because it's bored, you know it's probably just going to tryand eat you. You Know Tsr yeah, so things like that to me is where I have to start gettingcreative as at the end, because, okay, you guys Ilike, I mean I've- definitely had thisexperience before where I know that this encounter is harder, like the theencounterly you guys had on the ships in the early stages of Tumb ofannihilation when you lost Lebou, that encounter was a difficultencounter for sure, but ultimately, as a DM, I felt that the pirates that wereon board had sort of overwhelmed. You guys, you know like from behind the screen. So as piratesthey're looking, you know logically, it made sense that I could save you guysby saying like as a pirates. You know they're going to take you and take allyour shit and try to hold you for ransom right, but you guys decided to continuallyfight and you know, get a pillther killed. Yes, I presented the out, but it's one ofthose things where it's like. Okay, well like on Theothr. On the other hand,these pirates could just straight up, kill everybody and there goes acampaign. You know, I think, F I'd, be interested to find agroup of players that might want to run like a dark soul style game like that.Maybe- and this is whyr- I'm saying like maybe tha- The the mood of thecampaign could be like the mechanic IVS. You can a respon, for example, yeahright where you can try planning something about that: Rightan ResondCami, that's exciting! That's exciting! Just because like to me, it would beexciting to pursue something like that, but as a game, it's not fun. If you knowyou're having these extremely hard parties- and you have or extremely Hartfights, you have only one attempt at them and then Ante Yo lose you loseright like there's got to be. A change in mechanic to you know, encourage beating, is at some point yeah for sure, and I think like with thatrespawnd thing you kind of I'm working on different mechanics as far as likewhat can make it interesting because you also don't want to like just keepthrowing the characters into the same, combat over and over again right. SoI'm trying to like find ways to work with a respawn system that doesn't makeit completely boring. I guess for the for the playersin really Grindy, you know so I think more of- and it almost might be more ofa psychological kind of campaign where you start to mess with the players abit more. That way, just I was thinking with regers to respunds,because I' Gong to have given this a little thought and like I do like theway final fantasy handles it with the phoenix downs like some sort of itemthat has like a like a like a revivifive spell immuninit solike giving the players like a little bit of a fighting chance or somethinglike that, instead of just like maybe outrightresponding. But I don't know it's a weird mechanic bccause like. If youwant to run a campaign, then your enemies wouldrecognize that these players are back so lik the whole feel of it. I wouldthink: that's a Changeit. You know yeah yeah exactly so it is interesting, but at the samelike I don't know, because because the players, I think veteran players arebetter at this they're better at getting into character andunderstanding that their character has...

...survival instincts. You know F, theydon't want to die generally speaking, then they can kind of get involved inthat whereat and like if their character doesn't have survivalinstincts. Then they're better at role playing that aspect as well, wherethey're like okay. Well, this you know m. If my character dies, my characterdies, but that's because he's kind of messed up in head or whatever rightright right right, whereas I think like with with with some like newer players. Itjust feels like. Oh well, I'm just a player right and my character is justkind of this thing. That goes and does things and if he dies it doesn't reallyhurt me like yeah. It just means that I have to restartand it kind of feels like Eh. Oh, you know that kind of sucks yeah. So I think thit's part of it is alsogetting your role as a DM is also getting the players excited,aboutheters and some sort of a investment into the characters, becauseotherwise yeah you're right. It's easy to just throw away yeah Soin my campaign that I'm buildingright now, I'm like I'm putting a lot of forethought into the campaign andtrying to get the players to make like backstories ahead of time and I'm kind of getting them to becomeinvested in these players. It means a lot of extra work for the players, so Ikind of feel bad about that. But at the same time I know it'll pay off as faras like the they will want to play these characters through to completion.You know they will want to have them survive, and so it makes the campaignmore immersive in the end right, whereas if you just kind of give them apregenerated character, there's you know there's no attachment there right.So I think I I think the investment isworth it at h in the end, even if it feels like a bit of extra work, yeah,no, no for sure, but I think yeah, like you mentioned it right, it's not onlyjust like a veteran player thing, but also as as I start, dming more and more.There are things that I want to explore more in the game right, so that alsorequires me to invest more time an and in doing so, you know you you, I feel, like you, get more keen onfun, little mechanics that you want to introduce and how to engage yourplayers better right, yeah, because, usually wh n, when we like, when we allstarted out, it was okay, I'm interested in the ND who wants to bethe DM Hey I'll. Do it and you kind of just breathe the rules quickly, youknow, but now that I'm kind of more into the hobby for sure. Okay, what canI explore? You know what can I? What kind of games can I run? What kind ofyou know worlds can I build, and how can I connect everything right like? Ithink that that kind of architect brain takes over a little in every one of uswhen we start playing more seriously, you know mm yeah, it's iust wart to get you guys,has little input on that. I'm I'll keep you guys updated on how this campaignis going, so the gist of it is I'm trying to get four players to startthe campaign and they're both kind of set up in Pairs, and I want to have shared back stories between these pairsand then they come together. That's kind of something that I'mattempting to see if I can get better cooperation right off of thestart of a campaign. You know, even if, like even if two halves of the of theparty kind of operates separately, they kind of know how to fight with oneanother. You know and seeing how maybe these two groups come together is bothpart of this story. You know, but also part of the earlier game, mechanicswhere they can figure out. Okay, we can take out Goblins we've done this beforeas characters right. We know how to fight these things and seeing if that'sHavt, F helped along the earlier stages of the campaign, so I'll get I'll. Keepyou guys updated on that, because it's definitely fitting with the theme thatI want to go tor with this with the season. But that's that's pretty much it forthat. I think for this week we're on a schedule here, everybody oour listeners, and I think it's Bradens time to to tell us a little bit aboutthe dendion master's guide. Right e right. Yeah schedules got to keepmoving. Let's, let's take a look at the DMB for this week. Last week we talkedabout tracking time and how we deal with that in our universes and also about endingyour campaign and what that looks like and what that means. DTA US so thisweek we're going to take a look at Plasta because, as we've kind of justtouched on nicely tying it together in the first session, there's kind of a little bit for everybody andnot everybody wants to play the same way. So it's all about finding thatbalancing act of how you want your campaign to run andhow your players want to Campain Yoon. This talks about three kind ofoverarching play, tyles and obviously...

...there's small niches and variance ofall of these, and one of them specifically takes up the majority. Ithink of what players find in DND. But let's justtake a look quickly at each of these very broad categories: thiy gout here,the first that they have is hack- and this is your typical, like it's nonstopd, it'svery black and white you're, playing as it says, facing clearly evil monstersand opponents, and occasionally running into good and helpful NPCs. I would sayyou could probably even flip the script if you're running an evil campaign likeif your evil characters you're running into very, very defined good peoplethat you need to hack through. I think the idea is basically like you'replaying a very rigid archtype and your facing got halfagainst your opposite rigid arc type throughout the entire thing, and it'sjust going to be back to back. Encounter encounter encounter mowingthrough Momin throughmoting through which is not combat is admittedly,probably my least favorite part to dnd. So this is definitely not for me. I'mwondering how you guys far with players that, like this type of campaign, Carlossel turnto you first, because I know we do have t e the breaching clear team in our in our childen. So personally, the difficulty betweenthat is that it's not so much that it's jugglingbetween hack and slash- and you know some other version of gameplay. It'sthat only half the party is committed to that. So you know running, combat encounters.Definitely in gametime takes a short amount oftime, but in session time takes up a big chunk. Somy difficulty between that is, I understand the need of hack and ashwithin the campaign. I know that Jordan and Braidn, or I don't Jordan and MorganYeah- you guys- are pretty much spearheadingthat hack and h team. I know for a fact that Morean likes that more strategybased combat mechanic in the game, and I know I guess that Jorce you want tohave that as well, but it's difficult when it's a separate kind of groupdoing it, because you know what ends up happening ismaybe predeterminedencounters and locations become. I would would take way too long rightand, if, like the biggest example, would be like if you're across town,for example, there's no way that the other group can participate in that. So I try to find clever ways to maybeintroduce things that pushes the party back together. Sometimes it's not successful.Sometimes it is and when it is I'll, try to you knowhave the climax of the session try to be an encounter of some sort of or anencounter, that's been sort of premeditated throughout the campaign aswell. I just because I know that again, even within this party,everybody kind of wants to participate in combat in a differentway. No, that's not to say that Hockinlash to meto me: Hackin Slahteris, actually a pretty fun part of the game, because Ialso like that rts style of play, but it's as a DM. It is hard to likebalance out like the pace of play and how you can move forward with the storyand how you can introduce new things right like, for example, I think the last I thinkpersonally, I think the last Ca. The last session that we ran in Tom waspretty fun. Everybody was engaging pretty well with one another, butobjectively there wasn't really much that happened the entire session right.Oh, Oh, absolutely, very far. Right, I was a bizarre session, butit's but it's weird, because I I felt as at the end that everybody seemed tobe engaging with it right and that's a good sign to me that everybody'senjoying the game, but on the other hand there was reallynot too much combat and it got kind of weird at the end. But again I can see that in this case youknow players might want to push a certain narrative or a certain acertain. You know gameplay into the session. So it's trying tobalance that out a little bit, but now I find hackin slash pretty fun,especially once you, I think, especially once you have more advancedplayers, for example like in your Hord of the Dragon Queen. For me, hackinslash is really fun because I'm pretty confident in knowing what my monk iscapable of. So I feel like hey, there's...

...very little of me asking you what a certain spell does.If I can cast certain abilities, you know so the pace of the combat seems tobe moving a little bit faster in that campaign. I find so it's kind of Niceto try abilities out as a monk in a hack, andsh environment a especiallybecause I don't have the highest charisma, so it's all like socialencounters are really going well for me in that campaign either. You know soI'd rather resolve conflict with my fist, which inherently means morecombat Jordan ancelts on Tis yeah. So I actually as a ways starting my newcampaign o asked the players kind of what they were interested in doing asfar as like what kind of setting they wanted, and I was actually kind ofsurprised to hear that over half the crew was interested in adungeon crawl type of campaign. I was like really like. It doesn't involve awhole lot of like the storytelling aspect of it, if you're going through dungeons thatare significant unless you kind of build that into thedungeon. But it's definitely an interesting thing. Ipersonally enjoyed the the storytelling part and then havinglike the hack and aspect as like. Oh, this is the defining like moments thatkind of like move the story and progress it and then th. The the in between partsare kind of more like the social aspects and the Oh okay. Where are wegoing next? What are we doing next kind of thing? So right? I think that's also partically, becausewe're all TOR at least we've AL, been trying to run long farmcampaigns right. So we, I think, because of that I think I'vebeen a little bit more invested in the story side of things, not just a Dundoncrawly parts, because I feel like I could just introduce a you know yourall adventures you're here for a job and then next week, we'll put anotherjob in front of you and there's the story in between doesn't really matterthat much right, ithe next section that it talks about,is immersive s storytelling which, as you can probably guess, is pretty muchjust the exact flip of Hackinslesh. It focuses more on dialogue onexploring interactions between characters and NPCs and betweencharacters and characters and things like intrigue and things likemaking checks to do more. Social things versus more combatthings mentioned specifically like you, can go through entire sessions without anybody attacking anything at allwithout really encountering combat the next section that we're going totalk about after this is kind of the inbetween, which is a fusion of the two.But I'd say if I had to choose one of these, Idefinitely lean more towards the immersive storytelling,definitely as a DM and probably in my player preference to just recently, I mean I think, the lasttwo sessions we played in my home brew campaign have gone by entirelynoncombats that correct Jordan nop. I don't think so. I think it'sbeen one session so far non combat, I think, didn't we have been at thecircus for two sessions now know if they did in that case at since you gotthe Ightyou're Oso, that's been, that's been fairly narrative versus anything else, and I'mwondering what you guys think about dad doing that those sessions versus alwayshaving to kind of put combat in there. I can always enjoy that. I mean, I think, speaking from both theDM lines and the playerlands, I think I definitely enjoy those goofy kind ofsessions. They were we've gone over this, I think in the MGor I've heard this somewhere, but it's talking about like the importance ofdowntime in a campaign, even in a story, even in a story, type of campaign rightlike again goes back into what kind of what the players want. But if you arerunning a long form thing, there is going to be downtime at some point andI've. I've definitely enjoyed those sessions as well. You know, I think, one of the or God geat AeadyTak. I was just going to say I was thinking t kind of like, like you said it kindof comes down to the players, because if the players kind of know whatthey're doing and they enjoy that immersive storytelling part, then theycan move the story along themselves. But I find when it comes to thestorytelling aspect. The DM is almost less involved with how the story moves.There are certain aspects that that the DM can can do, but then sometimes Ifeel that the players can get stuck almost and so the action or the theHackin aspects kind of gives them...

...something. That's like a kickstarterlike. Oh something is happening. I have to take care of it boom and now what'sthe aftereffects and what happens now, that kind of thing, and so that kind ofcan kick start the storytelling aspect of it as well, but I do think it wouldbe really cool to have a fully political campaign. Almost if you wereall born into like some sort of noble family, and now you got ta like almostlike a Ger fotand shit yeah, where you got to like try and take the throne oror keep the or keep two to nations from warring or or something along thoselines where you're kind of more in charge of people, and maybe you sendpeople off to do different things like assassinations or or go to war, ormaybe you're a general, and you have to come up with the tactics for the thesoldiers ind, the infantry and that kind of thing. I think the only thingthat I could see that having an issue is with regards to outcomes of encounters a player mightnot necessarily have been involved. In so sure you say I send a group ofrebels to fight my opponents group of rebels who roles Tho die for that you know.Does the DM roll, the outcomes because I feel like if that happens, a playerof? Might you know if it's a negative outcome? Well, that it was the playerever in control or was? Is it expected like? I feel like ittakes away a little bit of tha direct control, a player might have so I don't know how that would fit in withmost players. That's that's my concern with that is. I definitly have to haveperseverance. Well, the thing is real yeah like you're, taking away the theplay aspect of it right, like you're, almost adding another layer ofvariability. I don't know if that's inherently good,I don't personally see that being too effective right away. But again youcoul probably find somebody WHO's. You know into this tactical combat warfare.Ki, you know, plays risk playl risk a little bit yeah. I definitely will agree with that. Yousaid on the the story telling Noan how comback can be a kickstarter, because Ifound certain moments both as a DMB and as a player where, in a very RPenvironment with somebody, nobody is nobody makes actions. You know nobodymakes anything actionable within the campaign everybody's just talking aboutwhat else do I see? Is there something off about this andthen some other players like? I will go and watch the door. Is there liketrying to find that hint of information to safely act on an encounter? You know I find that that happens a lot when it's just to RP heavy, sometimes it kind of gets into a stalemade oflike nobody wants to take or make a mistake, so nobody's really making adecision with their character, but then, at the same time as a DM, you know ifyou're running that RP session, the enemies would also be like. Why arethese players just like not doing anything and like justwasting time? You know yeah, so I do like the Gat. I definitely useTing yeah definitely use combat to just be like Oh and then this happens o.What do you do and then okay we're in it again held like a carriot on a stick, but Idon't like to use that too much to like derive the players places. You know the final kind of area of play that it talksabout here is just marked as something between missisreally with a vast majority of campaigns. Tentefal, no I've never seen a campaign that isone hundred percent hackand slash or one hundred percent. Just storytelling,there's always some kind of a variance in there, and I think that that is because neitherone of those things can really sustain itself without the other like. If youjust wanted to do a more immersive storytelling, you could probably read abook and if you just wanted to do hack and slash, you could go play some kindof like a beat them up or shoot them up or something it's kind of the the ability tointeract within the space between those two that makes tnd a little bit moreunique, maybe not unique annii guess. There'sgames like Skyrim and whatnot that allow you to kind of walk that line aswell, but go ahead rone. I will say that some of the one shots that I'veplayed have been kind of like arena, style and and those are very likealmost a hundred percent hackinash where you go in and your objective isto kill or defeat everyone else in thearena and that's kind of it and I've had that in the middle of a campaign, evenright where, like you, have a full session of just okay, there you goyou're in this arena. This is going to...

...be the thing that's going on. Tvp kind of sessions can last prettylong that way, so I think that that's when you mightrun into you know like, but a full campaign, that's only hackand ash, veryunlikely for sure iinterested. I just I got a game mode epiphany as we always do inthis podcast and just generally and life, but a some form of arena, Onev, one DM versusDM kind of battle royal per se. You know it's likea gladiator match, but as a DM or as a like, it's weird, because I e Iwouldn't want to have somebody adocating over the rules of like hey.Can I do this o the other player? I would just want to be like hey, I'mgoing to do this and then the other da I'm taking in accepting the rules saingtheyre, like maybe you find a balance of it, but then you have like. I launch a fire pall and then I want torun around- and I don't know I'm thinking of this. This really roughidea here, but Onev, one arenais for dnd just makea fifth level o character and go to town. You know it be kind of fun. I don't know somesuper spash bro turn emen yeah anyway. The final thing that it endsoff here with is just some questions to consider when trying to decide whichplaye style leading towards is preferable for your party. It, as are you more of a fan of likerealism like something like the souls Games wher just like riddy and there'salways consequences dour actions or are you've more focused on count of theend result where you just kind of want to get them to that next weeyrent medival fantasy or like more modernthinking. What's your preference serious for humor, lighthearted orintense action, thorough planning, an advance store,improvisation? This is something that the three of us have talked outs inlots of lifte, varied elements of things, or do youwant to narrow in specifically on one topic like is horry your jam and that'sall your Campaignis, or do you want to kind of switch it up between severaldifferent Junas and the one that I really like is moral ambiguity versus like very blackand white s? Do you want your players to see like yes, this is the way thething should be done. We going to do that or is it like no you're a personin the world and that's always going to be at least a little bit great so dealwithout the way that you would personally, I guess, there's a lot ofquestions there, so I don't really know where to start with an answer her, butokay for regarding the first part regarding the realism of the game, I don't Mye consequences in my campaign.I think it's important, for I think it's really easy to get carriedaway into a murder. Hobo campaign, if you don't have any consequences withinthe game itself, right again depends if you're running a longform story versus a one shot. But you know if the players are constantly justusing fireball to clear rooms that have innocent people in them, people mightstart looking at them. Weird all right. So that's so some sort of ingameconsequence that the players might have. With regards to realism, I like to Ptry to keep it with. Like Idon't know, I have like the like the science and physics brain that kind ofalways lingers around with regards to my campaign, so I like to have it asreal as possible within the realms of Youknow. No, actually, that's funny that you saymagic but like just in general, with the game just try to keep the physicsof it as real as possible, just so that it's easier for a player to sort of feel like they're playing the gamepersa. You know it's easier to imagine yourself in the game if you kind ofunderstand how you feel within it, that's kind of an odd thought but likeif you know how much your character weygs, you know it's a reasonableamount. You know you're now playing some two hundred pound character, yetas a new character as a new player, you know like to be able to put your mindset in thegame and then magic is kind of what breaks those rules a little bit. Youknow magic is what lets you get into that supernatural and feel like a hero.You know or those like the the extraordinary abilities that yourcharacter might have is what breaks those normal bounds you know makes youspecial wit the game in general, I, like bold actions in mycampaigns, I, like players, taking the reins of the story, but again that can be it depends how much warning I put infront of the player because, again, like we mentionedbefore a dragon encounter, you know...

...your party could just feel like charge.It' like well, and that was the last of the Star and moral ambiguity. I'm comfortablewith if the players are aware of it beforehand, I would never do somethinglike I said. I would never make a situation where, like the players complete aquest and then I hit him withlike a moral twist to their actions and etcetera, I think that that's a littletropiand a little shitty to do it's like. Oh, you guys, save this village,and then this village continued making drugs for everybody. Killin, like thatseems like Shitty, like the players need to beaware of where the moral you know where the gray areas lie. So then I, as aplayer, can introduce our E as a DM can introduce mpcs. That can be. You know little little moral guides crirping in thebackground, all right, so I believe that wraps itup forwr this edition of divining, the DMT, those if you listening. What doyou think? What's your preferred play style? What do you think about thosequestions that we just asked? Let us know at Reyal city, society, Jordan.What do you Tin Right? Moving on to our critical thought ofthe day so guys I had this weird thought. The other day- and I waswondering what you guys thought about it. So in most DND campaigns you set upa world and you have specific gods, or you just say any God is real orwhatever in most campaigns. I guess you kind ofsay: okay, these are the ones that are the main ones that are worshipped. What do you guys think about likehaving a world where the players are actuallywrong about the gods and the deties and and all that kind of stuff like what?If you know they worshipped a variety of different ones,but there wasn't actually one or there wasonly one or what if they only worshipped one, but there was a varietyof them. How do you guys kind of like? Do youthink that that's e, an interesting idea and like you, could kind of likedevelop a campaign around that or do you think, like that's just kind of Imean if you're talking about the campaign of planet Earth in general, Ifeel like a direct example from ther yeah hike that campaigns comin to close.Sometimes soon we should probably not try nd to replicate that one yeahwe're definitely getting into end game content. Here Y EAN, the global plaguehappening possible possible aliens, unconfirmed anter, and you know in general. The worldwants to get flooded again. Who knows metior next month, keep me posted, I'msubscribed to world ending feeds. I just wish level to enny didn't involvedUS being stuck in our house for the full duration, but it is what it is. Ithink, like I think, like any MPC and game. You kind of hope that leveltwenty involves you directly and not just youas a passive observer. I hate thet were the mpcs, that's a so, but to actually answer your questionJordan. Out of what you've proposed, I think itwould be interesting to take a group of experience players and put them in a world where the gods don'tnecessarily exist, because it's just in a lot of pretty much every campaign actuallylike it's assumed that the gods exist right. It's a irs, not ju part Olike,thats part of the DMG, remember yeah. We have gone through that. It's WEAestablished facts of your world. That gods exists like it's, just somethingyou gind tof have to deal with it versus. I think it would be interesting to playit where the God don't actually exist, butmaybe you don't make that so clear. You introduce the world and it's more like it's exactly like the world that they're used to where there'sdifferent pantheons woare thn worshipping a different gods ordifferent religions mm, but you don't necessarily get the return.Maye, there's no real aw clerical powers right, there's, no realPalladin Chanyea holy divinity because there is no holy divinity. They justhave this. They have this belief, but it's completely unfounded. Yeu actuallyjust give me another idea, kind of o no in introducing well that are again itwould depend on your players, rigt ing what they're rolling, because if, for example, they are priests orPaladans or someof that draws on divine energy, it might be shitty if theycan't access it allright, but you don't have any of those players. Maybe aquestion game is something like in the...

...season two of Ledend of Cora, where herconnection to the spirit world gets severed. So as a players continue theircampaign part of the campaign, is they turn off or the destroy something andall of a sudden. It severs the divine connection on the material plane andnow all priests, all Paladins, all of a sudden are depowered. How does that tipthe balance of power in your world? Who knows you know, but I think that'd be cool, becausethat's as players, all of a sudden they get back into this world where they're,like Oh shit, I know what I did everbody's fucked, but that you know that also means youcan't resurrect people anymore right exactly like all that is justdisconnected no getting like divine. You know, guidance or anything likethat. You know you can't like just ask someone hey: what's going on in theworld over there ope that no answer, sorry, it would definitely make for someinteresting plot lines like how do we can we reconnect these these cut tethers? How do we do that?Like just a campaign, just in general, like you're, like a researching groupand Youve, found the item that restore that. However, this the thing that Ilove about storytelling is, you can really take any idea and grow your ownplant out of it. You know yeah takeet, treminless and propagate Ed, adifferent way, but yeah. That's an interesting concept,especially because I think a lot of the mechanics of this game are rooted insome sort of divine power, Yeuh, ow sut. You could do that. You could do thatwith anything right like O, you could go the opposite roud and do like amagicliss world right, like all of a sudden everybody's connection to theweave is severed. No more magic magic items do not work anymore. Nothingmagical occurs, hmm only divine energy, you know, or some of them I don't knowyeah it's easy. This is I fid Azy, just like. Oh another, dot connectedanother dot connect yeah. So that was my crazy thought forthe day, thanks everyone for listening. I hopeyou enjoyed the episode season. Two episode three completed guys, whoo yeah. So for those of you listeningwe'd love to hear from you, send us a message at our instagram account at RoiCity, society and Yeah, look forward to a few different things that we might bepublishing coming up, probably in a few weeks and hopeeveryone's doing well, I'm Jordan, I'm Carlos and I'm rid and we'll see youguys next week.

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